{"id":7974,"date":"2013-02-24T09:01:16","date_gmt":"2013-02-24T14:01:16","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/2013\/02\/03\/"},"modified":"2013-02-24T09:01:16","modified_gmt":"2013-02-24T14:01:16","slug":"10-questions-with-john-mabry","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/?p=7974","title":{"rendered":"10 Questions with John Mabry"},"content":{"rendered":"

1. What made you decide to write “Growing into God: A Beginner’s Guide to Christian Mysticism”?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve long been a student of Christian mysticism\u2014and a practitioner, too, I might add! I was teaching a graduate course in Christian mysticism at a local university, when I realized that the only textbooks out there were either antiquated or hopelessly inept. I decided to write one myself. But because I\u2019m me, it isn\u2019t a textbook. I teach, but I don\u2019t consider myself an academic. I\u2019m a pastor\u2014so I\u2019m not writing for academics or even students necessarily, but for ordinary folks. My ideal reader is a Christian who wants to go deeper into her own tradition, or a non-Christian who wants to see what all the hoopla is about.<\/p>\n

2. Readers know what I mean when I say Christianity, but what is Christian Mysticism? What is the difference?<\/strong><\/p>\n

In my mind there isn\u2019t one. Mysticism is the very core of the Christian tradition, regardless of what denominational lens you\u2019re viewing it through. The problem is, most Christians have either forgotten this, or they don\u2019t recognize what they believe as being \u201cmystical.\u201d Mysticism is the pursuit of\u2014or enjoyment of\u2014union with the Divine. Since all Christians believe that they are united with God (or Christ or the Holy Spirit) in some fashion, all Christians are mystics. But unfortunately, we in the Christian tradition have done a pretty lousy job of communicating our tradition, even amongst ourselves. We\u2019ve made it so sin-centric that we\u2019ve sapped it of its joy\u2014and that\u2019s just not the way of Jesus at all. Christianity isn\u2019t about sin or guilt or blame. It\u2019s about life and transformation and making love to God. (There, that should get me on some Christian fuddy-duddy\u2019s hit list.)<\/p>\n

$\"\"$ <\/a>3. The path of the Christian Mystic has steps leading to Union. Could you describe each step to my readers <\/strong><\/p>\n

Sure. First, Evelyn Underhill describes a step zero, called \u201cAwakening,\u201d that kicks everything off. This is a mystical experience that just kind of comes out of nowhere and knocks you upside the head. You go, \u201cWTF? What the hell was that?\u201d This is kind of the \u201cGod as heroin dealer\u201d model. The first taste is free, but you know you\u2019ll want more, and soon you\u2019re hooked. Which is good, because the next step is very hard. The mystics call it \u201cPurgation\u201d and it\u2019s the first step in the classical model. Once you\u2019ve had an Awakening experience, you see everything in a new light. You begin to sort through the things in your life, weighing them in light of the mystical revelation you received. You begin to let go of those things that are not congruent with your vision, and hold on to those that seem congruent. Basically, you\u2019re sorting the illusory from the Real, based on the brief glimpse of the Real that you\u2019ve received.<\/p>\n

Once your done with this sorting, you can settle into a serious meditation practice, which the mystics call \u201cIllumination.\u201d In the Illuminated state, you see the Divine in all things. But as you go deeper, you realize that this is incomplete\u2014that in fact, it is the other way around: all things are in God.<\/em> I call this stage, \u201cEnjoyment\u201d because in it you really learn to enjoy the presence of God, and you sink deeper and deeper into an awareness of the Divine presence.<\/p>\n

Finally, you sink so deep that the distance between you and the Divine disappears. The mystics often speak of this as \u201cdivine marriage\u201d or \u201cdivinization,\u201d but the result is the same\u2014the illusory distinction between the Creator and the creation is dissolved, and the mystic enters into full and conscious union with the divine. But this is no sea of bliss. To be one with God means that what God wants, you want, and what God does, you do. And since God\u2019s primary concern is to heal everything that is wounded or broken, mystics in full union are very busy people, spending most of their time with the poor and the oppressed.<\/p>\n

(Question 4 was skipped because he pretty much answered it in question 3.)<\/strong> <\/p>\n

5. In reading “Growing into God”, the path of the Christian Mystic doesn’t seem entirely safe. Could someone attempt this by themselves with just your book for guidance?<\/strong><\/p>\n

No form of mysticism is safe. People blow out their nervous systems doing Kundalini yoga all the time, when they try it out of a book. Christian mysticism isn\u2019t as hard on the body\u2019s electrical system, but you\u2019re right\u2014it\u2019s not a safe endeavor, either. It\u2019s best done within the context of a loving and supportive church community (there is no such thing as a \u201clone ranger\u201d Christian, after all) and for best results, one should see a trained spiritual director once a month. <\/p>\n

6. The Catholic Church features many mystics in their history, but I get the feeling if someone spoke to a bishop today and said, “I’m pursuing the path of the Christian Mystic,” the Bishop’s response would be to back away from you slowly. I guess my question is, what’s up with that?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Well, my guess would be such a reaction might have something to do with an overzealous ambition. It\u2019s like the difference between saying \u201cI\u2019m thinking of going into politics\u201d and announcing, \u201cI\u2019m going to be king of the world!\u201d Going into politics is doable, being king of the world is less likely. And so it is with mysticism. The truth is that all Christians are called to be mystics, but few ever reach the \u201cfinish line\u201d of full union in this lifetime, but the good news is, we don\u2019t have to. As St. Therese of Lisieux of Liuseaux said, \u201cAll the way to heaven is heaven.\u201d<\/p>\n

On the other hand, if most Christians knew their own tradition better, we\u2019d all own up to being \u201con the mystics\u2019 path,\u201d and there would be far fewer raised eyebrows. Still, your fictional bishop should know better. Instead of backing away, he should clap a hand to your shoulder and say, \u201cThat\u2019s a wonderful thing. I\u2019ll be praying for you.\u201d<\/p>\n

7. Can Union be compared to the Buddhist concept of enlightenment? Is this path just for Christians?<\/strong><\/p>\n

The stages of the mystical journey are roughly the same in most religious traditions. If you conceive of the Buddhist Noble Eightfold path as a linear model of spiritual development, and compare that to the model laid out in the Hindu Yoga Sutras of Pantanjali, and compare that with the Christian model of Purgation, Illumination, and Union, you\u2019ll find amazing similarities. The Hindu and Christian models are the closest. The Buddhist model does things in a slightly different order, but all the pieces are there. Of course, each tradition uses a different vocabulary, different metaphors and symbols to describe this journey, but the journey is basically the same. In my book I\u2019m describing the journey as Christians have experienced and spoken about it. But when you strip away the symbols and language and cultural baggage what you find is the same journey of the soul\u2014a human journey. <\/p>\n

8. Can you tell us about one of your favorite mystics and why they’re a favorite?<\/strong><\/p>\n

I have so many favorites! I especially love Julian of Norwich, though, because her visions are so rich, so emotional and loving, and they also challenge the theological notions of her time, albeit in a cannily diplomatic way. But I also love the practical mysticism of Charles Williams. His \u201coccult thriller\u201d novels are masterpieces of both horror and theology. I wouldn\u2019t be doing what I\u2019m doing today if not for his influence. <\/p>\n

9. What’s next for you? Any more books?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Yes, there are always more books! I have a new one coming out from Morehouse\/Church Publishing titled Faithful Generations: Effective Ministry Across Generational Lines<\/em>. I\u2019m also polishing a Christmas novel, and hope to soon start work on a sequel to my horror\/comedy\/adventure novel, The Kingdom<\/em>. Meanwhile, my progressive rock band, Mind Furniture, just did our first gig and we were blown away by the positive response we get, so we\u2019ll probably put some energy into more live shows, even as we continue working on our next CD. Our last CD is called Hoop of Flame<\/em>, and it\u2019s on iTunes, so I hope you\u2019ll check it out. It\u2019s got a great hymn to Shiva, and a rock opera where we put God on trial for his crimes against humanity. It\u2019s a kick!<\/p>\n

10. Part shot! Ask us here at The Magical Buffet any one question.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Have you done any articles on Christo-pagan\/Christo-Wiccan rituals or communities? I\u2019d love to read that, if so.<\/p>\n

I haven’t, but I’d love to. There are so many topics out there, so little time it seems. A great place that has discussed it from time to time along with a ton of other fascinating topics is The Wild Hunt<\/a> website.<\/em><\/p>\n

About John R. Mabry, PhD:<\/strong>
\nJohn R. Mabry is a United Church of Christ minister and pastors Grace North Church (Congregational) in Berkeley, CA. He teaches spiritual guidance and world religions at the Chaplaincy Institute for Arts and Interfaith Ministry in Berkeley and at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology in Palo Alto. Among his books are “The Way of Thomas”, “Faith Styles”, and “Noticing the Divine”.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Today we’re doing 10 questions with John Mabry, author of “Growing into God: A Beginner’s Guide to Christian Mysticism”. We talk a lot about, what the heck is Christian mysticism?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[6,13,26],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7974"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=7974"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/7974\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=7974"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=7974"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/themagicalbuffet.com\/blog1\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=7974"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}