Comments on: Reading the Gnostics https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919 Where spirituality, politics, and pop culture collide! Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:02:18 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.2.9 By: Andrew https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-69015 Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:02:18 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-69015 Hi Stefo,

My apologies for the delay. First of all, you should put the Dead Sea Scrolls to one side. They’re not directly related to Gnosticism and represent a different set of beliefs and historical issues. In academia there has been a great deal of discussion over the usefulness of the term Gnosticism. Alternative proposals include just seeing what we call Gnosticism as part of the variety of early Christianity, or taking the texts one by one and seeing how they should be interpreted before they get lumped in under the umbrella term of Gnosticism. You can read articles on some aspects of this reassessment at the Palm Tree Garden blog http://www.palmtreegarden.org/

Personally I’m happy to keep the term Gnosticism. Most of the writings in the Nag Hammadi library have characteristics in common with each other that they don’t have with other forms of Christianity. And the compilation of the Nag Hammadi codices themselves shows that the various Sethian and Valentinian writings, etc. were seen to belong together. Plus later writings like the Pistis Sophia include influences from a wide range of material that we would call Gnostic. But in scholarship it’s going to be a hot topic for a while yet.

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By: Stefo Boanerges https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-67645 Sun, 26 Dec 2010 16:04:33 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-67645 I found this to be a great overview of ideas circulating around the formation period of Christianity. Thank you.
But, I am also wondering about the utility of describing “Gnosticism” as one coherent tradition. When I look over the wealth of information derived from Nag Hammadi and the Dead Sea I feel as if I am encountering a diversity of views that disagree with each other on many points. What do you think about this? Is there good reason to describe this multi-formed tradition as if it were one coherent movement? I’m just confused and I am seeking your guidance.
Thanks!

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By: Jim Eusebius-Yaldabaoth https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-38886 Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:17:21 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-38886 The attempt to ascertain “facts” about religious mythology (e.g. historical Jesus) is an example of the schizophrenia that has afflicted religions, particularly Christian ones, for much of the last millennium. Myths provide a lyrical, evocative structure in which to tease out one’s own best understandings about the most complex and puzzling aspects of experience. The attempt to make them rational and/or fact-based misses the point from the start and is the root of most or all religious intolerance. It appears the Gnostics understood this, given their apparent preference for individual myth-creation over creating uniformity/institutionalized “truth”.

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By: Andrew Phillip Smith https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-38785 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:58:22 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-38785 Deborah, thanks for your comment. I hope you’ll take a look at the Nag Hammadi library itself (perhaps with my Dictionary of Gnosticism by your side.)
Anders: The historical Jesus really isn’t the point of this article (and I’m actually very skeptical of the endeavour to find a historical Jesus, though I find the attempts at such fascinating.) But if you reject the entire NT as being post 135 (which somehow mutates to 4th century) you may as well reject the existence of a historical Jesus in its entirety. 4QMMT doesn’t refer to any Jesus!

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By: Anders Branderud https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-38772 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 20:13:18 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-38772 This article uses the term “historical Jesus”.

The persons using that contra-historical oxymoron (demonstrated by the eminent late Oxford historian, James Parkes, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue) exposes dependancy upon 4th-century, gentile, Hellenist sources.

While scholars debate the provenance of the original accounts upon which the earliest extant (4th century, even fragments are post-135 C.E.), Roman gentile, Hellenist-redacted versions were based, there is not one fragment, not even one letter of the NT that derives DIRECTLY from the 1st-century Pharisee Jews who followed the Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua.
Historians like Parkes, et al., have demonstrated incontestably that 4th-century Roman Christianity was the 180° polar antithesis of 1st-century Judaism of ALL Pharisee Ribis. The earliest (post-135 C.E.) true Christians were viciously antinomian (ANTI-Torah), claiming to supersede and displace Torah, Judaism and (“spiritual) Israel and Jews. In soberest terms, ORIGINAL Christianity was anti-Torah from the start while DSS (viz., 4Q MMT) and ALL other Judaic documentation PROVE that ALL 1st-century Pharisees were PRO-Torah.

There is a mountain of historical Judaic information Christians have refused to deal with, at: http://www.netzarim.co.il (see, especially, their History Museum pages beginning with “30-99 C.E.”).
Original Christianity = ANTI-Torah. Ribi Yehoshua and his Netzarim, like all other Pharisees, were PRO-Torah. Intractable contradiction.

Building a Roman image from Hellenist hearsay accounts, decades after the death of the 1st-century Pharisee Ribi, and after a forcible ouster, by Hellenist Roman gentiles, of his original Jewish followers (135 C.E., documented by Eusebius), based on writings of a Hellenist Jew excised as an apostate by the original Jewish followers (documented by Eusebius) is circular reasoning through gentile-Roman Hellenist lenses.

What the historical Pharisee Ribi taught is found not in the hearsay accounts of post-135 C.E. Hellenist Romans but, rather, in the Judaic descriptions of Pharisees and Pharisee Ribis of the period… in Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT (see Prof. Elisha Qimron), inter alia.

To all Christians: The question is, now that you’ve been informed, will you follow the authentic historical Pharisee Ribi? Or continue following the post-135 C.E. Roman-redacted antithesis—an idol?

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By: Deborah Blake https://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919&cpage=1#comment-38764 Sun, 14 Mar 2010 15:14:21 +0000 http://themagicalbuffet.com/blog1/?p=1919#comment-38764 Wow–fascinating stuff! I don’t have a Christian background (grew up Jewish, more or less) so all this is new to me. And as an author, I can see SERIOUS fruit for stories in these books.
Thanks for sharing!

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